"The gist is that the first weekly Sabbath after the First Day of Unleavened Bread is the time for the wave sheaf offering. The First Fruits... Both days are always on a Sunday — even before Christ."
rather than upon a Sabbath (as you stated later in the paragraph), the day of First Fruits actually does fall on the *first day* of the week during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. i believe Judaism has commonly practiced the ritual of waving the first fruits of barley shortly after Sabbath sunset in the dark, which is Biblically technically the beginning of the first day of the week. of course, Christ didn't ascend to into heaven to the Father until later on sometime that day.
Roger recently shared this is the first holy week he recalls recognizing that not only do the Biblical holy days fall identically with the crucifixion week, but also mainstream Christianity has placed Easter to fall on the sunday which is the day of First Fruits.
regarding:
"The first three Gospels appear to have Jesus having the Last Supper on Passover. Either Jesus and his disciples celebreated Passover early because He knew what was coming, or we have a contradiction between the first three Gospels and John’s Gospel."
much of the confusion over time has been caused by those teaching that the so called "last supper" *was* Passover. the scriptures in no way suggest this, nor do they use the phrase "last supper". it would be more accurate to understand this was merely the last time Jesus dined in the flesh (after resurrection and ascension He does exemplify dining while in His spiritual form).
confusion has also been caused by the misunderstand of Passover taught as being a day. however, no where in the Bible is Passover exemplified as *being* a day, in like manner as every other weekly and annual holy day. rather, Passover is an *event* which falls upon the *preparation day* of the 14th of God's first month according to His sacred time/.calendar. this is a special preparation day for a special Sabbath: the First Day of Unleavened Bread (God's first Sabbath of His sacred year).
i subscribe to the understanding that Christ instituted the new covenant symbols (unleavened bread & wine) as being the new covenant Passover, observed in the evening of the 14th ("early" 14th), while His sacrifice was completed in the middle of the afternoon ("late" 14th around 3PM) as many old covenant Passover lambs were being sacrificed. this perfectly exemplifies one understanding of "between the evenings", during which the Passover sacrifice is to occur — upon the 14th day of the first month of God's sacred year, in accordance with God's initial command found in Exodus 12:2-3.
God knew the physical temple would be destroyed within the generation of people during His time in the flesh, therefore, He made a way for the Passover symbolism of eating His body and blood to be maintained by updating the physical symbols which now solely point to the spiritual temple which is within each believer where God's Holy Spirit resides.
therefore, while the Old Covenant Passover metaphorically represents the physical exodus of God’s children (Israel) from the temporal bondage of Egypt (a type of sin), the New Covenant Passover metaphorically represents the spiritual exodus of God’s children from sin eternally.
of course, doctrines exist among believers which vary from this perspective. such is why the so called "Passover controversy" continues. regardless, i believe this is a Biblically accurate understanding of the new vs. old covenant Passover.
Yes but what is this "heart of earth" Jesus spoke of? Does he mean the grave, or the Underworld, or that-which-decides-what-"earth"-does? After all, the "heart of man" is effectivelly the man's decision-making faculty, his conscious deciding. Is "heart of earth" the same? Or is it merely the physical center of ... the earth? The Earth? Jesus didn't go to the center of the Earth, I'm pretty sure of that. So what does he mean? The Underworld, where the souls of dead languished, waiting to enter Heaven?
After all, you could argue, Jesus was given over to "the deciders of earth" on Thursday night, according to the traditional interpretation. Luke 22:53 is a guide. Did Jesus enter "the heart of earth" then, or when he died, or when he was laid into the grave? Funny question.
At any rate, if he entered the "heart of earth" when he was taken into custody, then we count the night between Thursday and Friday as 1 night, and we count Sunday as 1 day, and we end up with a total of 3 nights and 3 days.
In real life, prophecies are never as clean as they are in D&D.
Jesus was already resurrected by the dawn of Sunday morning.
Not sure what you mean by Luke 22:53
Luk 22:53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
A mistype of a number?
I agree that prophecies are never as clean as in D&D. However, three days and nights does fit the literal text of the Bible quite well. The key is to recognize that there is no Biblical evidence that Jesus was crucified on a Friday. Passover kicks off a sabbath regardless of which day of the week. Few Christians pay attention to the seven annual holy days, other than Pentecost.
No, that's the correct citation. I was meaning the last part: "(but) this is your hour, and the power of darkness". I say this is Jesus acknowledging he's being taken under the power of "darkness" or alternatively, that he's "entering into the dark".
Now let's draw some parallels. Much of our language, and much of Biblical imagery derives from human experience. So we can do things during daylight and so we associate the light of day with goodness. So God would then be symbolically associated with light. Similar with heavens. We normally associate "the heaven" (sky) with God because we say God is "out there" or "above us" or that sort of thing. We would say "God dwells in heaven". So if both light and heaven is associated with God, then we could ask "what is associated with absence of God?" And that would be the opposites of light and heaven: darkness and earth. With earth in particular, we could say "if God dwells in heaven then he doesn't dwell in earth", therefore "earth is where God doesn't dwell". And with this background I can now say, I believe, that when Jesus was taken into custody, he was taken over by darkness, or entered into the dark, which can also be described as "entered that part of creation where God does not dwell": earth.
Well that sums up the argument. I think it's capable of defending the traditional understanding that Jesus died on a Friday.
I won't try to convince you otherwise. If you find your defense of the traditional timeline to be credible, stick with it. My cause is to bring my fellow nit-pickers back into the fold.
God has given us both clear commands and confusing mysteries to chew on. Maybe some of the mysteries are important, like removing the brown M&Ms if you a promoter of a Van Halen concert. But getting the nitnoids right is likely less important than the core things.
you may have accidentally made a typo here:
"The gist is that the first weekly Sabbath after the First Day of Unleavened Bread is the time for the wave sheaf offering. The First Fruits... Both days are always on a Sunday — even before Christ."
rather than upon a Sabbath (as you stated later in the paragraph), the day of First Fruits actually does fall on the *first day* of the week during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. i believe Judaism has commonly practiced the ritual of waving the first fruits of barley shortly after Sabbath sunset in the dark, which is Biblically technically the beginning of the first day of the week. of course, Christ didn't ascend to into heaven to the Father until later on sometime that day.
Roger recently shared this is the first holy week he recalls recognizing that not only do the Biblical holy days fall identically with the crucifixion week, but also mainstream Christianity has placed Easter to fall on the sunday which is the day of First Fruits.
regarding:
"The first three Gospels appear to have Jesus having the Last Supper on Passover. Either Jesus and his disciples celebreated Passover early because He knew what was coming, or we have a contradiction between the first three Gospels and John’s Gospel."
much of the confusion over time has been caused by those teaching that the so called "last supper" *was* Passover. the scriptures in no way suggest this, nor do they use the phrase "last supper". it would be more accurate to understand this was merely the last time Jesus dined in the flesh (after resurrection and ascension He does exemplify dining while in His spiritual form).
confusion has also been caused by the misunderstand of Passover taught as being a day. however, no where in the Bible is Passover exemplified as *being* a day, in like manner as every other weekly and annual holy day. rather, Passover is an *event* which falls upon the *preparation day* of the 14th of God's first month according to His sacred time/.calendar. this is a special preparation day for a special Sabbath: the First Day of Unleavened Bread (God's first Sabbath of His sacred year).
i subscribe to the understanding that Christ instituted the new covenant symbols (unleavened bread & wine) as being the new covenant Passover, observed in the evening of the 14th ("early" 14th), while His sacrifice was completed in the middle of the afternoon ("late" 14th around 3PM) as many old covenant Passover lambs were being sacrificed. this perfectly exemplifies one understanding of "between the evenings", during which the Passover sacrifice is to occur — upon the 14th day of the first month of God's sacred year, in accordance with God's initial command found in Exodus 12:2-3.
God knew the physical temple would be destroyed within the generation of people during His time in the flesh, therefore, He made a way for the Passover symbolism of eating His body and blood to be maintained by updating the physical symbols which now solely point to the spiritual temple which is within each believer where God's Holy Spirit resides.
therefore, while the Old Covenant Passover metaphorically represents the physical exodus of God’s children (Israel) from the temporal bondage of Egypt (a type of sin), the New Covenant Passover metaphorically represents the spiritual exodus of God’s children from sin eternally.
of course, doctrines exist among believers which vary from this perspective. such is why the so called "Passover controversy" continues. regardless, i believe this is a Biblically accurate understanding of the new vs. old covenant Passover.
thank you for bringing all this to light! 8-)
Yes, I did make a typo. Correcting now. Thanks!
Yes but what is this "heart of earth" Jesus spoke of? Does he mean the grave, or the Underworld, or that-which-decides-what-"earth"-does? After all, the "heart of man" is effectivelly the man's decision-making faculty, his conscious deciding. Is "heart of earth" the same? Or is it merely the physical center of ... the earth? The Earth? Jesus didn't go to the center of the Earth, I'm pretty sure of that. So what does he mean? The Underworld, where the souls of dead languished, waiting to enter Heaven?
After all, you could argue, Jesus was given over to "the deciders of earth" on Thursday night, according to the traditional interpretation. Luke 22:53 is a guide. Did Jesus enter "the heart of earth" then, or when he died, or when he was laid into the grave? Funny question.
At any rate, if he entered the "heart of earth" when he was taken into custody, then we count the night between Thursday and Friday as 1 night, and we count Sunday as 1 day, and we end up with a total of 3 nights and 3 days.
In real life, prophecies are never as clean as they are in D&D.
Jesus was already resurrected by the dawn of Sunday morning.
Not sure what you mean by Luke 22:53
Luk 22:53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
A mistype of a number?
I agree that prophecies are never as clean as in D&D. However, three days and nights does fit the literal text of the Bible quite well. The key is to recognize that there is no Biblical evidence that Jesus was crucified on a Friday. Passover kicks off a sabbath regardless of which day of the week. Few Christians pay attention to the seven annual holy days, other than Pentecost.
No, that's the correct citation. I was meaning the last part: "(but) this is your hour, and the power of darkness". I say this is Jesus acknowledging he's being taken under the power of "darkness" or alternatively, that he's "entering into the dark".
Now let's draw some parallels. Much of our language, and much of Biblical imagery derives from human experience. So we can do things during daylight and so we associate the light of day with goodness. So God would then be symbolically associated with light. Similar with heavens. We normally associate "the heaven" (sky) with God because we say God is "out there" or "above us" or that sort of thing. We would say "God dwells in heaven". So if both light and heaven is associated with God, then we could ask "what is associated with absence of God?" And that would be the opposites of light and heaven: darkness and earth. With earth in particular, we could say "if God dwells in heaven then he doesn't dwell in earth", therefore "earth is where God doesn't dwell". And with this background I can now say, I believe, that when Jesus was taken into custody, he was taken over by darkness, or entered into the dark, which can also be described as "entered that part of creation where God does not dwell": earth.
Well that sums up the argument. I think it's capable of defending the traditional understanding that Jesus died on a Friday.
I won't try to convince you otherwise. If you find your defense of the traditional timeline to be credible, stick with it. My cause is to bring my fellow nit-pickers back into the fold.
God has given us both clear commands and confusing mysteries to chew on. Maybe some of the mysteries are important, like removing the brown M&Ms if you a promoter of a Van Halen concert. But getting the nitnoids right is likely less important than the core things.